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Did You Know There is Also a Teen Wolf Anon Meme? FFA Post #152
The Sixth Seal
sunnymodffa wrote in fail_fandomanon
I'm moving back to my old city. Part of me wants to deanon entirely- mostly so I can try to use the large number of anons as a potential audience to sell spare furniture. Anyone wanna buy a coffee table? An entertainment center? Take some of my potted plants?

Sometimes anon saves us from ourselves. Even if "sunnycamehome2u's furniture sale" would inevitably end in delicious delicious wank.

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Re: Podfic's validity as a genre, and AO3's problems as an archive for all fanwork

(Anonymous)

2012-09-19 07:50 am (UTC)

That's a right mess to read. On the one hand I get that it might be frustrating to not feel like your fanwork is appreciated, but I'll admit that I have a hard time thinking of podfics as original works. To me their more akin to a good translation, something that takes both skill and time, but isn't an independent work. Plus when it come to fanlore I think it'd be simpler to just have one page per story and then link to all it's formats, fic, translations, art, vid, podfic etc. from that single page. Having multiple entries for one story just seems counterintuitive to me.

(Frozen) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: Podfic's validity as a genre, and AO3's problems as an archive for all fanwork

(Anonymous)

2012-09-19 07:52 am (UTC)

I think they can be original works --- some podficcers include music and sound effects, and they can be like a radio play. In that case, they're still an adaptation, but interesting. I've never seen one that didn't link to the story itself, though.

I'm not really a podfic enthusiast, but people do put a lot of time and work into these.
(Frozen) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: Podfic's validity as a genre, and AO3's problems as an archive for all fanwork

(Anonymous)

2012-09-19 02:47 pm (UTC)

NAYRT How does including music and sound effects make them original? I guess I just don't get the word 'original' in this context. I actually like podfic, but it seems at best a transformative work to me, not an original one.
(Frozen) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: Podfic's validity as a genre, and AO3's problems as an archive for all fanwork

(Anonymous)

2012-09-19 06:45 pm (UTC)

Fic is also a transformative work: it's the author's words, but someone else's characters (and often someone else's setting and even plot).

For that matter, arguably even "original" fiction is a transformative work; there's nothing new under the sun, etc. Most novels build on cultural touchstones and assumptions just as much as fic builds on canon.
(Frozen) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: Podfic's validity as a genre, and AO3's problems as an archive for all fanwork

(Anonymous)

2012-09-21 08:00 am (UTC)

Arguably the whole point of the AO3 is to host transformative works, though, so even if one considers a podfic as inextricable from its source text (as I would myself), it's still entirely appropriate as a fanwork to be included on the AO3. Podfic is easily as transformative as vidding.
(Frozen) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: Podfic's validity as a genre, and AO3's problems as an archive for all fanwork

(Anonymous)

2012-09-19 07:56 am (UTC)

I don't know about podfic, but should fanart based off of a fic really not be given a separate page? I have a hard time considering a fanvid and a fanfic the same work as well.
(Frozen) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: Podfic's validity as a genre, and AO3's problems as an archive for all fanwork

(Anonymous)

2012-09-19 06:40 pm (UTC)

DA

Yes, but what is the point of a wiki page? I think it should be for more than just rec'ing a fic or saying it exists. Fanlore does aim to document every (media fandom type) zine ever made, but it is not trying to document every fic ever written or every piece of meta (as a distinct artwork, that is--the ideas from meta are totally welcome).

If there's a famous fanfic that has been podficced and had companion art/video/etc. pieces made many times, but what is culturally and historically significant is that everyone knows/discusses/responds to the original fic, those other artworks and the various reactions should go on the fic page. Artistically, they're their own thing. In terms of social impact or history, they're part of the activity around the fic.

You can say something's a separate work without thinking it needs a separate page.
(Frozen) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: Podfic's validity as a genre, and AO3's problems as an archive for all fanwork

(Anonymous)

2012-09-19 07:07 pm (UTC)

In terms of social impact or history, they're part of the activity around the fic.

In the case these podficcers were discussing, though, this was the exact opposite. It's the podfic that is famous and has had follow-up/pastiche pieces made many times. The fic is great, but not ususual or notable. The podfic started a whole new trend of reading not!fic, and is the main "go-to" for podficcers to find a way to read emoticons out loud.

In this case, having a separate page for the fic would be unnecessary; a line about it on the podfic's page is appropriate. But people automatically assume that only fic--never podfic--is interesting/notable/worthwhile, so someone came in and turned the page about the notable podfic into a page about a not-particularly-notable (though very good!) fic. THAT's the problem.
(Frozen) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: Podfic's validity as a genre, and AO3's problems as an archive for all fanwork

(Anonymous)

2012-09-19 07:22 pm (UTC)

I wonder how the fic author feels about the fact that the podfic is apparently oh so special and famous (with the fic itself being apparently unimportant compared to the reader's performance), while their own fic which the podfic was supposed to be celebrating/showcasing in the first place is "not particularly notable."
(Frozen) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: Podfic's validity as a genre, and AO3's problems as an archive for all fanwork

(Anonymous)

2012-09-19 07:27 pm (UTC)

Now, I'm neither a bandom nor podfic fan, but if the podfic was the first with something new, I understand that it's notable. I mean, it's not that unusual when you study classic lit that the first of some new literary technique is nowhere near the best example of it, but it's still historically important because it's first and changes how other people create.
(Frozen) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: Podfic's validity as a genre, and AO3's problems as an archive for all fanwork

(Anonymous)

2012-09-19 07:31 pm (UTC)

NA

You may well wonder that, but how is it relevant to the discussion? The purpose of a wiki is to provide information, not to soothe people's feelings by reassuring them that their work is notable.
(Frozen) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: Podfic's validity as a genre, and AO3's problems as an archive for all fanwork

(Anonymous)

2012-09-19 07:37 pm (UTC)

Probably fine? That author is prolific and awesome and has many, many, many very notable fics to her name. Not every fic needs to be notable--99% of them aren't. It's still a great fic.
(Frozen) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: Podfic's validity as a genre, and AO3's problems as an archive for all fanwork

(Anonymous)

2012-09-19 09:28 pm (UTC)

Some authors feel like you seem to.

Some authors probably haven't thought much about it.

Some authors actively support podficcer's performances as fanworks tied to, but also separate from their own.

"not particularly notable" doesn't mean that something it's good, it just means that for one reason or another, it hasn't made as big a splash in writing fandom. Podfic fandom does have its own currents; recording that are huge for us may not make much of a splash as a written text, and recordings of very notable written works may not be particularly huge in our community.
(Frozen) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: Podfic's validity as a genre, and AO3's problems as an archive for all fanwork

(Anonymous)

2012-09-21 08:06 am (UTC)

That seems rather needlessly stroppy. The fic isn't being discarded as unimportant - it's been actively described as very good. But it ISN'T innovating the medium (whereas if someone found the first instance of Not!Fic, that COULD be held up as innovative and game-changing). The podfic, however, is notable for the fact that it was a seminal work, providing a template for a method of translating that particular style of writing into the spoken form.

Why are you finding this difficult to grasp, Nonny? Why do you want to try to make it into an insult, when it transparently is not any such thing?
(Frozen) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: Podfic's validity as a genre, and AO3's problems as an archive for all fanwork

(Anonymous)

2012-09-19 07:44 pm (UTC)

na

That's fine as far as "social impact" is concerned, but in terms of history, the fic really was first. The fic is the story, and at best all the podfic adds is an innovative presentation of it. I'm personally uncomfortable with acting like the text of a fic - a huge part of a podfic's content - merits a single line in the podfic's page.
(Frozen) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: Podfic's validity as a genre, and AO3's problems as an archive for all fanwork

(Anonymous)

2012-09-19 07:48 pm (UTC)

I'm honestly stumped as to why you think that. "First" isn't really the question, is it? Someone created an article specifically about the unusual, important fanwork. Someone else came along and turned it into an article about a fairly regular, not particularly important fanwork.

I honestly don't understand this attitude. I've written a shit-ton of fic, and people seem to like it. None of it is what I'd call notable. However, it's entirely possible that someone could record a podfic of some of it that would be very notable indeed. That notability would be the recorder's, not mine. I don't see how that notability would take anything away from me.

Everyone KNOWS that most podfic is created from existing fic. I don't see the point in constantly emphasizing that, except as it serves to endlessly remind podficcers that fic-writers think they're not worthy.
(Frozen) (Parent) (Thread)

Re: Podfic's validity as a genre, and AO3's problems as an archive for all fanwork

(Anonymous)

2012-09-19 07:57 pm (UTC)

AYRT

Well, in that case, I agree. This seems pretty clear cut. Bizarre.
(Frozen) (Parent) (Thread)

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